Terni Carcano Serial Numbers
Terni long rifle. I found a Terni long rifle in my grandmas closet. It says TERNI and 1890 where the barrel meets the stock. The serial number kv1362 is on the side of the stock near the butt and on the barrel. Feb 04, 2008 Carcano, what do I have? The top of the flat says TERNI, The right says 1930 VIII. The left flat says G5 243 (serial number? Carcano Serial Number. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. Carcano Database - Carcano M91/38. 6.5x52 Carcano: AM669: Terni: 1940. RE Terni: 1941: XIX: Fixed: Serial number appears to have been restruck as 366583.
Carcano Model Identity Carcano Design Id Nomenclature The model nomenclature and identity of the different Carcano guns and carbines varies hugely and confusingly in both Italian and international novels. While it may be more suitable, in the lengthy work, to remain with the 'established' Italian language army nomenclature, it can be not continually clear itself and usually too ambiguous. Richard Hobbs uses the subsequent strategy: Sticking with German parlance, he differentiates (only) two fundamental models for the Carcano, designated by the decades in which the design was presented: Modello 91 (Meters91) in 1891 and the Modello 38 (Meters38) in 1938. The crucial difference between both models is certainly the designed good quality for which the gun had been chambered: 6,5x52 Carcano for the Michael91 and 7,35x51 Carcano for the M38.
As a outcome, those obvious Design 38 weapons which - after 1940 - had been once again chambered for the older 6,5mm quality and reliability are also called Meters91/38. The design number will be followed by the year in which a significant variant had been presented (hereafter refered tó as thé sub-modeI), if applicable.
For instance, the M91/24 made an appearance first in 1924, becoming a transformation of Michael91 Fucile to Moschetto Testosterone levels.Beds. The Michael91/24 will be sufficiently various from the previous Michael91 Moschetto T.T.
To cause a independent naming. The design status should become followed by the phenotype, when not unnecessary: Fucile, Moschetto CavaIleria (Cav.), Moschetto Truppé Speciali (T.T.) and Fucile Corto.
Instances where the phenotype is redundant is usually the M91/24 Moschetto T.S., M91/28 Moschetto Capital t.T. And Meters91/41 Fucile.
Italian Carcano Serial Numbers
This technique is certainly a fairly compact technique, but imprecise if the design specifications and naming conventions are not completely recognized and internalized. AIexander Eichener, on thé additional hands, while knowing the formal correctness of a mere model difference, wants another descriptive technique for clarity and easiness of recognition. He maintains that Carcani should greatest be identified:. very first by their phenotype, that is either long rifle, short rifle, cavalry carbine, or exclusive troops' carbine. second by their design/sub-model amount, e.g. M91, M91/41 (the two long guns), Meters91 TS, Meters91/24 TS, Meters91/38 TS (all these are usually full-stocked unique troops' carbines).
third by their good quality, id est 6,5 mm or 7,35 mm. While an debate could be brought forth that it become enough to use the model number by itself to furthermore identify the quality and reliability, this can be very unknown also for the professional, much even more so for the non-initiated everyday reader. Here is certainly an illustration: saying 'I have a Carcano Moschétto TS Mod.
38 in 7,35 mms for purchase' is a great deal for clearer than just calling it a ' Carcano Model 38' and letting the audience question what it might change out to be in the end (a short gun? A cavalry carbine?
A specific soldiers' carbine?). An interesting various other 'Carcano' design, in the wider feeling, is definitely the, which was created 1938/39 on foreign agreement for use by the Japanese as part of Axis shared help pacts, and which is chambered for the 6,5x50 R Western. Unlike the other Carcani, which possess a 6 circular charger-clip magazine, the, has a 5 circular box magazine (for stripper videos). Stocks and sights also vary from the Italian language type in that they closely resemble the Western Type 38 Arisaka long rifle from 1905. Sub-Models In add-on to the simple versions, there are sub-models determined by the yr when revisions to the basic model had been presented. For example, the Meters91/24 Testosterone levels.S.
Is certainly a rework started in 1924, switching the Michael91 Fucile to Capital t.H. The Meters91/28 (unique soldiers' carbine) and Michael91/41 (long ifle) are sub-models were launched in 1928 and 1941, respectively.
A minor exception to this rule is definitely the - already stated - Michael91/38 which was actually released in 1940. The Michael91/38 made it nomenclature from it getting a M38 chambered in 6,5x52 Carcano, instead of the initially intended 7,35x51 Carcano.
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Meters91/38's are usually often also referred to as 'M38 in 6,5x52 Carcano'. In addition, there will be no proof to support the often-read and repeated rumour that any M38's had been converted from 7,35x51 Carcano to 6,5x52 Carcano (by altering the barrel or clip), based to Hobbs. But a amount of Meters 38 guns in 7,35 mms had been made making use of old 6,5 mms barrels and receivers, the markings of which may nevertheless be found partially visible e.h. On the barrel base. Regardless of the formal variation which we undertook over, it is certainly typical to find the sub-models being known to as versions (i.e. Michael91/28 as Meters28; M91/41 as Meters41).
Just keep this in mind when interpreting a reference point. Variants or Types From these basic minimal 'versions', various discernible options existed: the Fucile, FuciIe Corto, Moschetto CavaIleria (Cav.) and thé Moschetto Truppe SpeciaIi (Testosterone levels.H.). These are the denominations most helpful for you, ánd which Alexander Eichéner acquired also called 'phenotypes' because they are usually immediately well-known at view. Fucile (Lengthy gun): Two long rifles can be found, specifically the M91 and the M91/41 (the preceding Meters 91/40 had been a long trial gun which was never dispersed at large). They are distinguished in the pursuing ways: - Size - Rear sight blades: M 91 graduated from 600 metre distances to 2000 metre distances, Michael 91/41 from 300 metre distances to 1000 metre distances - Sling bars and swivels: just at the underside for the Michael91, whereas the Meters91/41 furthermore has aspect pubs. A few Meters 91/41 may possess their bottom part swivels machine made off after creation. Buttplate: the Meters91/41 buttplate is definitely slightly slimmer and curves around the top side of the buttstóck, so the upper screw enters from above, vertically.
Fucile corto (Short rifle): They exist in 7,35 mms (Mod. 1938 or 38) and in 6,5 mms (Mod. Similar except for good quality and sight zeroing distance (7,35 mms at 300 metre distances, 6,5 mms at 200 metres). Only the very first Meters1938 brief rifles originally had a different handguard and nosécap and no 2nd barrel band (and these are usually not really 'prototypes', as Richard Hobbs incorrectly named them, but regular production). Upon unfavorable reviews from the troops, these features were transformed, and the old style guns were nearly all retroconverted to the later on (standard) standard, by exchanging the handguard ánd nosecap and ré-milling the share's front side finish to accomodate the brand-new nosecap. The Short Rifle is certainly often confused with the Moschetto TS. Find the explanation later on on this page for a listing of the differences.
Moschetto TS A brief carbine, filled nearly to the muzzIe, with a bayonét lug and a handguard. Comes as M91 (in various adjustments), M91/24, Michael91/28, M38, Meters38 S i9000 (in 7.9/7.92/8mmichael Mauser) and M91/38. Moschetto per Cavalleria A half-stocked cavaIry carbine, with thé unmistakable triangular folding bayonet; it is usually set to a long lasting muzzle mounting, but hinges back under the share, into a slot there. Not rarely the bayonet is usually lacking. Exists as Meters91, Michael38, Michael 38 S, M91/38.
One producer, FNA Brescia, continuing its previous M91 design throughout the 2nd World War and under no circumstances produced a Meters91/38 with fixed sights. Please note that the round barrel bottom (instead of the outdated half-octagonal settings with five facets on the top side and a round bottom) had been already introduced method before 1938 for the last Meters91 carbines and is definitely not really a indication for a Michael91/38 design in ánd by itself.
Hów to distinguish a Short Rifle and a Moschétto TS:. The Short Rifle provides a gripping groove milled into each part of the wooden forearm; the Moschetto TS not really. The Brief Rifle provides a buttplate with a little (hard-tó-pry-open) trapdóor for its thrée-piece cleansing rod; the Moschetto TS offers its pole perfect under the clip or barrel, screwed into a route like the FuciIe 91.
The Short Rifle is usually xxx cms (40 ins) long, the Moschétto TS onIy xx cms (36 inches). How to differentiate the manifold Moschetto TS sub-variants: Possess you ever taken a broom ánd begon to spread around the woodland?.Sigh. The Moschétto TS underwent cónstant small adjustments and modifications like no various other Carcano, and I find it really hard to obtain an overview. Collectors hould maintain in brain that these were all undertaken guy mano, that is certainly, successively as shortly as a weapon would possess to become fixed and came back again to the arsenal. Many various phases and variations hence co-existed at the exact same period and to speak of 'introduction instances' would deceive the viewer. The changes mainly include the right after parts:. bayonet haul on original nose cap altered from transversal TS shape to typical right fucile shape.
handguard retainer attach added to nosecap; handguard accordingly manages to lose its keeping inner front metal lip, like the fucile's i9000 handguard do earlier. extra aspect sling swivel installed into the forearm. lengthy curved nose cap exchanged to brief fucile design. second barrel or clip band included (fucile style). part sling turning added onto the fucile design barrel music group. There are various other Carcano variants, but these are likely to be extremely uncommon or conversions of some other types.
For example, there are usually the Guardie del Re also (Full's Guard) and Moschettieri deI Duce (MussoIini's Safeguard) variants, both of which are usually uncommon, and are recognized by the colouring (gilded ornamentation and black share, respectively), and non-standard stock/bayonet remedies. One conversion is definitely the Tromboni Láunchi Bombe (aka Tróboncino Launcia Bombe), thé Grenade Launcher variants of the Michael91/28 T.S., Michael38 Capital t.H. The Tromboni Launchi Bombe can be permanently connected to the correct aspect of the weapon. Guns with the Tromboni taken out should have got a small notch cut on the top of the chamber end of the clip or barrel and the correct aspect of the stock inletted. 1943 saw the launch of a German born design grenade launcher that suit underneath the barrel or clip of the Meters91, Michael91/41 and Testosterone levels.S i9000.' There are usually also past due war official German 8x57 Is usually conversions, carried out as an crisis measure for the VoIkssturm in both publication and single-shot adjustments (Heinrich Krieghoff department factory in Tyrol).
Terni Carcano Rifle Serial Numbers
These are usually very rare, and must not really be confused by the very much more typically offered using variant: Some Moschetti TS Meters38 were chambered for thé 7,92x57 Mauser (aka 7,9x57 Mauser; 8 x 57 Is usually; 8mmeters Mauser). We contact them 'Meters38 S i9000' here, because they usually have a large 'H' tag on the recipient, and often furthermore on the bolt deal with; their receiver breech end has a half-moon slice to accomodate fór the longer 8 times 57 Will be cartridges (just as with thé Norvegian Kar 98k converted to.30-06, and the Turkish M 1903/38 conversion rate). Richard Hobbs believes, centered on an oblique and unsure remark in Italian language army source docs, that these guns were meant for German troops operating on the Russian top, and he thus calls this sub-modeI the Moschetto Meters38 TS Russi (Russian); but this seems to end up being a naming after the truth (unless more Italian resources be uncovered). Others disagree, based y.gary the gadget guy. On the discussion that the expression 'Fucili Russi 8mmeters' could mainly because nicely and also more actually refer to two not unusual RUSSIAN Planet War We bounty weapons: to the Austrián-captured Mosin-Nágants transformed to 8 x 50 R Steyr and tó the German-capturéd Mosin-Nagants converted to 8 times 57 IS. Besides, the German armed energies had massive stocks of authentic Austrian Michael1895 guns and carbines, and also used thém in WW II.
Thése critics recognize those Moschetti either as post-war conversion rates accomplished for Egypt, somé of which had been taken by Israel, or as immediate war aid deliveries to Israel. The most likely bottom line is thus that at minimum two, probably three different Carcano types in 8x57 Is definitely can be found; their history still remains somewhat ambiguous until now.
Sorry for the cut and substance, but I didn't actually experience like retyping the entire message. I just purchased a 6.5mm Itialian Carcano last weekend and had been wondering even more about its background. I have examine up on the internet even more about it but I are having difficulty selecting one that looks like quarry.
The closet I can find can be one that is for selling right here. The hyperlink is However mine has a several variations. I feel lacking the sling item on the very butt end of the gun. The markings are generally there for one but it looks like it has been never included. Also I have got a really weird searching basic safety behind the result in. The markings on it are RE Terni with the overhead symbol. Furthermore the serial number on the barrel or clip is V2214 and matches the stock.
Also there is certainly a calendar year imprinted on the clip or barrel of 1939 with roman numbers XVIII aftér it. The twó primary differences are shown in these photo'h Thanks a lot. The picture demonstrated from the auction can be a cavalry carbine lacking the bayonet and installing set up. Your picture does not really show very sufficient to inform if it's i9000 also that design. The rear sling club recess seems to have got been packed but you would end up being better capable to tell that.
Filling up the recess used to be fairly typical to create the carbine appearance 'more sporty'. If yóu wouldn't brain publishing a couple more overall pics and probably another of the back sling pub recess, somebody right here can quickly inform you. I'meters not certain about the obvious 'basic safety'. Custom made add on? Thanks for looking. Here are some more image's. If it had been a fill in on the sling attachment it has been done quite very well.
If you operate your little finger over it, it is definitely completely easy. Almost looks like it was attracted on there but it will not bleed if you apply you finger on it. Also the authentic site offers been taken out and who ever acquired it before attempted to add something various. I'michael not certain if that exhibits in the image's or not really.
If the safety will be a custom made increase'on after that it had been done really properly. I would have got never known that it has been added on. Okay - it's not a cav carbiné, it's á sporterized Michael91/38 ( if actually a 6.5 and not really a 7.35) The front sight appears like a Finn replacement unit, but it could become a damage build. What looks interesting is usually the added gadget on the left aspect.
A scope build? The trigger block will appear nicely done. Perhaps a real gunsmith modified this to end up being a great hunting gun. If the exact same person stuffed the rear sling club recess, that would accounts for the good function. While sporterized, the function shows up of great high quality. SW Final modified by 5thDragoons; at 09:17 PM. Thanks for the assist.
Yes it does appear to become done quite well. Strange that the seriaI numbers would go with on the stock and the clip or barrel. I believed if it were sporterized that there would become no serial quantity on the share. Appeartly i has been incorrect. It is a 6.5 as that is marked on the barrel or clip. Furthermore for $75, i don't think it has been that bad of a offer. Again thanks, Edit: Furthermore the fill up in work looks very well done, Like I mentioned, you can run your little finger over it and it is definitely very smooth, well accomplished if so.
Furthermore I was looking nearer and there is usually a SD imprinted on the BoIt in two locations and near the result in, Very small therefore thats why I skipped it the initial time. Any suggestions? Last edited by hcndeehan; át 10:15 PM.
It arrived from Italia. Appears to be an M38 and if nevertheless in the original chambering would end up being a 6.5x52 but the British proofs state 6.5x54 so it would become a good idea to perform a chamber throw before shooting to discover which. It had been produced at the R.At the. Terni toolbox and the markings on the butt are the serial amount, looks to have got over stamped with another at some point.
The marking below the 'Sixth is v' in the h/n on the recipient is certainly the Tiro á Segno Nazionali márking which means the gun was above average in the accuracy department and during WWII it has been likely released to the greatest chance of a given unit to end up being utilized in the sniping move. It is usually stated that rifles bearing like marking are usually exceedingly unusual.
Can be it still in original military trim or has Bubba the weapon plumber experienced keep of it?